Hi folks,
Yes, I am here now. Sorry it took a while. It's nothing personal. Like I told Corki via email, I have valid excuses I could throw at you all day long, but they would just sound lame. So let's get to it, shall we?
First off, thank you for inviting me here. You clearly have a thriving community and I'm really proud of what you guys have built. I hope you're proud of it too. I would never dream of stepping in and diving you guys. That's not my intent with this effort to bring everyone back to DM. My goal, in fact, is to give you guys fertile ground to setup your community with DM where it started, and allow you to thrive and grow with the huge flow of new members. Also, you guys have the potential to be a true pillar to the Dragonmount website due to your activity and passion.
I have read this entire thread. I've looked over the website. And this post will answer every single question you've put forth. I'll get to it now
Though you have expressed much interest in moving to the wordpress, could we keep them on the current forum setup if we really wanted to?Yes, you can definitely keep what you have now. I'm not a hard-assed dictator who says you need to burn all your old efforts. My suggestion is this: keep what you have, and link to it wherever appropriate. But moving forward, use the tools that DM can provide you. And if we don't have a tool that you need, just ask! We can setup pretty much anything for you within reason. For your album reviews (which are AMAZING I have to add!!!!) I truly think we can use wordpress to do this very well. We can even look into some specific modules or plugins which might make it go smoother.
Though you have expressed much interest in moving to the wordpress, could we keep them on the current forum setup if we really wanted to?See above. I think the best course of action is to keep what you have now where it is, call it an "Archve" and link to it where appropriate.
What do you guys think? Any ideas?
Could you please clarify for everyone what exactly a subdomain is and how it would workGreat question. A subdomain is basically a website within a website. Specifically it would be something like:
botrh.dragonmount.com or something like that. When people go there, they would see your stuff. Now what that "stuff" is, is currently open to discussion. What would you like? Personally, I think you should setup what's called a "landing page" which has a welcome message, something describing what you are, and then links to your various forums, reviews, blogs, etc. Maybe a dedicated gallery for you to put RL pictures of your members on? (Just an idea). I think you get the point.
This subdomain would be hosted on DM, of course, and you would have full access to edit it all you wanted. Overall, I just ask that the look and feel be something related to DM. I'm willing to work with you to make a custom design for your Org, but my standards would be high and I'd like it to "look like it was part of DM"...whatever that means. I'll work with Corki on this personally.
One last thing about that... you know, the DM website isn't THAT bad looking. You could make a really great site just using the layout DM currently has.
Would there still be the same public boards on the main DM forum site?I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to, but yes, you would have both public and private forums. Public ones would be seen by anybody your Org leader allows. Does that answer your question?
Would the subdomains be private, or only the boards which we deem as such?Generally the subdomain would be public. At least, the launch page would be. If no launch page was used, the subdomain could just go directly to your main forum page where there would be a list of all private and public boards. Just like here.
Regarding the HORNSOUNDER newspaper (and forums and website for it)Okay, wow. This Hornsounder thing seems like a big deal. First off let me say it's a GREAT IDEA and I love it. I'd love for it to get bigger. I don't think its pretentous at all to want to cover other orgs and make a DM-wide newspaper. I applaud the idea and wish it luck. I remember a number of attempts to do a similar thing over the years at DM. (God, we're going to be 9 years old next month! Crazy!!!!)
- You are welcome to have a dedicated website for the Hornsounder
- You are welcome to have dedicated forum(s) for the Hornsounder. All I ask is that you genuinely try to keep the number of forums down and consolidate where possible.
Yeah, I'm annoyed and my patience is up especially now that yet another slap in my face has been given.
Low and behold.... the Illuminators have received the go ahead to create a DM-wide newsletter that's almost identical to our Hornsounder. If this doesn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the facked up attitude of the DM admins and certain staff members, nothing will. They just càn't stomach others having a great thing going and just hàve to usurp it the moment they get a chance to do so. Only Matalina being an admin got the aproval stamp of Jason, so I guess that's that. I understand your frustration. And I'd be fracking pisssed as well if I were in your shoes. Seriously. But let me just put a few things out there. I know Alicia (Matalina) personally and I know she would never dream of stealing anybody's idea. God knows she's overwhelmed as it is with her current duties at DM and being a mother of 2 babies. When she asked the other DM admins and I (Jenn, Kevin, and Owen) if she could start a DM-wide newsletter I said YES cause I thought it was a great idea. Why did I say that? Cause I truly did not know your Hornsounder idea was still happening. And part of that is because, at the time, your org mostly happens over here. It wasn't happening in the broad daylight of Dragonmount.com. Now I'm not saying that as an accusation. Please don't take it as such. All I'm saying is that this might be a good example of why having your org (and all the others) together under one umbrella will really help the communication flow better between everyone.
Had I known your Hornsounder newspaper was so active, and had I known of your intent, I would not have given the thumbs-up to Matalina. I would have made the following suggestion to her, just as I am going to make it to you now:
Work together.
I suggest you email Matalina, or whoever maintains the Illuminator project, and talk about joining forces somehow. Maybe you guys cover certain things and they do others. There's plenty of stuff to go around. People at DM are starving for fresh content like that and we have the tools do it. I
love the Hornsounder name because it relates back to the books, and I love the idea behind it.
I can't speak for Matalina, but I have a strong hunch that she would agree with what I said before. She's a kind woman and I don't think she would ever want to steal something like this. My guess is she was in the dark about your efforts too, or at least thought it had slowed down too much.
Even so, I assure you there's no favorites being played. It's no secret that I'm not super active at DM on the forums, so if you want something brought to my attention, my email INBOX is the best way to get it.
Your thoughts?
One last thing about this... moving forward, do you see the Hornsounder as being an email newsletter or a blog type thing that people have to go to? Or both? Whichever way we go, I've got great ideas and you will have the tools to do this on a site wide scale easily.
Moving on....
when the websites are to be put on a DM location, will we keep our independance over the website or will they be put under the rule of the DM Admins? Who will have the authorisation to take all decisions regarding the website (from look to contents)? I'm very much concerned that we would be reduced to 'inputters' without any say as to the look, contents, policy, use, etc of a tool we created in the first place. A valid question. I
want you to have full control over the content. Frankly, I don't have the time to micromanage every part of DM. I want you guys to have the freedom to post articles, reviews, or whatever without the input of the DM admins or myself. I want you to run your own show. But to do that, the Admins and I need to trust you. I think that's easy to understand and valid, wouldn't you? And to a large extent I already trust you. Corki is doing a great job managing your community. I want to keep it going that way.
For policy, the best approach is to have Corki be your represenatives as to what you want. Then have him work with myself and the DM admins to all agree on how we want to manage and moderate the community. For the most part I think you guys see eye to eye with me on what is OK at DM and what is not. (It's those SG people we have to look out for...hehehe) So let's discuss policy and come to an agreement. Corki is the man to start this talk with.
In the database migration, would we be expected to copy and post all existing boards over to the new database, save for the archived resources that would still be allowed to be referenced here, or would there be some sort of ... import capability that can be worked up - copy to csv then import sort of thing.I would love to do a CSV import. And maybe we could do that?
I'm not sure. See my ideas at the top of this thread about having your current stuff be a living archive while all new stuff is on the new system. Also, don't think we have to be tied to Wordpress. We use it all over DM, but if there is a better solution for Linux out there, then let's grab it and go.
What would the role of the board admins be. I can understand you being an overseer of the board and having perview to the board and information, but would other DM org leaders and admins have that same capability and that need to have access into the Band? We have a law structure and an escalation process in place and I am wondering if we as the leaders would make a decision only to be overruled and thus nullifying our guidelines and disciplinary measures.It is my intent that each org be able to take care of its own business without interfereance from the DM admins. The Admins are only supposed to "step in" if things are really out of control and not being handled, or if something gets escalated up to them. We're here to help you. Not block you, slow you down, or get in your way.
Yes, the DM admins will have access to all your Top Secret boards. I don't think we can avoid that even if we wanted to. But you can be rest assured that nobody is spying or using that power for evil. To be 100% blunt... we don't care that much.
Have your privacy. Everyone needs it. But if we need to go in to a private board for valid reasons, we'll do so.
Regarding policy and moderation... same thing applies. But, per my above statements, I'd rather we all be on the same page and following the same rules so there's no debate over what is appropriate and not. The DM staff in general needs to move to address this. Corki is your represenative.
I understand you wanting to keep a general look and feel to all things associated to DM, but would we be able to have customizable sizes on our signatures? This is something that the band uses to convey who we are in the band, and we like to get a bit arty with them - if you can't tell.I love your sig artwork. I really do. It's very nice. But let me share with you where I'm coming from:
- Legally, you need permission to show those pics. Do each of you have written permission to use and modify those pics? Did the artist allow for Wilson the Volleyball to be superimposed on top of that lovely pic? As DM's owner, I can get into trouble if you don't.
- Large sigs slow down the page loading process. Somebody will complain. I guarantee it. (But hang on, let me finish....)
I know I can't please everyone.
- For every person who likes these giant sigs, I bet there are 1 or more people who are driven crazy by them. You will be hard pressed to find ANY image on the DM website that big. Even some of the book cover images we have are not thar large. These sigs are HUGE. Some would say obnoxious. I know its part of what makes this community so nice for you. And I want to preserve that somehow. Truly. I think this just might have to be an area we compromise on. Here are some ideas off the top of my head:
-- Put these large pics in your BIO
-- Put these large pics in a dedicated BOTRH Art gallery
-- Put a smaller cropped version of them in your actual signatures for the forum.
Do you have other ideas?
Another thing I am looking into is the POSSIBILITY of allowing these large sigs on your forums, but not on the other forums at DM. I don't know if that's technically possible with our new forums (or any for that matter), but I've already sent off an email to the DM Admins asking them to look into it.
Would the moderators/CG/MG be able to place band sitewide messages as we do here to just the band board or would it cross into the other boards. I guess here I am asking how we'd be set up. If we're on a subdomain are you going to set up an entirely new database for us to use, or would we be an added forum into the already existing SMF tree. Trying to figure out how much bleedover there would be.It is my intent to allow you to make annoucements for your entire Org to see. It is also my intent that when we make site-wide announcements, they will show up on the Band forums as well.
I do not know how the database stuff will work out yet. Those tech details are still in the works.
Being able to use different styles of posting is one of the varieties in the Band that makes my experience a good one. RP'ing, bantering, light spam, serious debates, etc.
This differs greatly from the posting rules as they were on the old DM boards (as several people have pointed out now).
--> How much of our 'freedom' will we lose when we're brought back under the DM supervision? I see no reason why light RPing, bantering and silly posts should not be allowed. For role playing, all I ask is that if you want to do any long term role playing, use our formal RPG. It's cool. It's fun. Use it. But if you want to role play here and there (like acting out advancements...) then go for it. That's awesome.
The "light spam" is always a hard thing to define. I'll admit that personally I think its a waste and just gets in the way. I mean, don't you think its a bit lame to do? *shrug* But that's just me, and I realize some people dig that. Go figure. People also like guns so....
Which brings me to...
Serious debates. *sigh* Again, if it were entirely up to me, I'd can all these disucssions about politics and religion and all that. They just encourage flame wars. You know it, and I know it. It's asking for trouble and "I" shouldn't have to deal with it on "my" website. We're a WoT fan site, not the United Nations. But again, people are asking for it. So we provide it. And I try to keep that moderated and under control. And usually it's okay. But about once a week I get an email saying "So-and-so threatened to hurt me" or "So-and-so insulted my religion" and "So-and-so is just a thingy, please ban their ass for 500 years".
Anyway, to answer your question about it, I think its OKAY as long as it falls into the guidelines that we all agree on in advance. Again, Corki will be your represenative on this to the DM staff and admins, and we'll strive to clearly define this stuff soon.
RE: Avatars and sigs.... "One set to indicate our rank and another for personal avatars.I love this idea. Not sure its possible with the current forums we have. If we can do it, I'd be happy to look into it. (I've been looking for this for years to be honest. Wish I had it back in '98)
I believe these restrictions are based on a personal dislike towards the use of smilies from certain admins, though they don't seem to have an aversity of using other smilies themselves, which is puzzling and seems contradictory to me.With all due respect I think your belief in the above is mis-lead or mis-informed. Smilies are fine. We all like them. I've been insanely jealous of Mike's WoT smilies [at wotmania.com] for nearly a decade. I wish somebody would make us a nice custom WoT set. (hint hint)
If you want new smilies, just ask. Go through the proper channels. In this case, Corki is yout go-to guy. Bug him. He bugs the admins. The admins bug me. We'll get it done.
how much of our freedom will we lose in these aspects related to the signatures and avatars and would it be possible to create a smilies database such as we have here that would allow for a much broader variety of smilies that form a quite important role in communicating a feeling or mood along with the words we type?See above.
Can we have links to posts within a threadI just checked now and YES, you can link to a specific post within any thread in the forums.
can people join the orgs they want to join themselves or will it remain that the org leader must bring them in? In some orgs it's taking a long time for people to be allowed in the org, though there's no special requirenment asked of them other than a sign of willingness to do so. Good question. My intent is that anybody can join any org without an approval process. I want the Orgs to be open to the public. But I'm willing to entertain the idea that certain orgs have an application process.
Personally, I think a better idea is to have the lowest rank of the org be always open, but any higher ranks need approval. Just my $0.02
loading time on DM is rather slow for me all the time, compared to the old boards. Will this remain like this or improve? I plan to slow the site down and make it harder to get to.
...
Clearly I always want the website to go faster. For you tech nerds out there: DM is sitting on a fiber-optic network dedicated entirely to it. It has a 20 Mbit up/down connection. In the next year or 2 that will go to 50 MBit. Within 5 years I expect it to be on a 100 Mbit line. Yes, you read me right.
By comparision, most mid-sized corporate networks in the Silicon Valley are probably around 40 Mbit for the ENTIRE network, cubicles, phones, etc. DM has 20 all to itself.
The DM server is less than 1 year old and I bought some reliable stuff. Everything is on battery backup. I am looking to add a SECOND DM server for extra performance and redundancy.
To be honest, most of the "slowness" on the site happens when we load those banner ads. Those flash animations which fund the website are hosted elsewhere. Next time the site seems to be loading slowing, try and notice where the page stops loading at. Most likely it stops right after that top header when it is loading the banner, huh?
LAST ONE.....
The email thing on DM is not very user friendly. Isn't there a way to put the last pm on top instead of below and to put it so that not all the pm's are open on the page but basically use the same system as on the old DM? Not sure if i'm asking this correctly. This is a minor usability issue. Send this request to help@dragonmount.com and Matalina will look into it. We have full control over the design of the site. I personally think it's okay as-is, but if your idea works well then we'll do it.
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So that's all I saw. Did I miss any?
Again, sorry for the delay. I will do my very best (promise!) to keep up to date on this thread. Just be aware that in addition to my full time job, I travel for 2 days every week, I try very hard to be a Dad to my son, and I have this other insane hobby of making movies which takes as much time as DM, and sometimes more. But DM is very close to my heart and it means to me than you'll ever know how much you love the website and community. My goal is not to drive you away but to bring you back together under one roof where we all belong. I promise to do my best to give you the tools your org needs to succeed.
As always, the best way (by far) of getting a hold of me is email. Bug me enough and I'll reply.
Jason @dragonmount
So keep it coming. Howw are you guys feeling now?
- Jason