Kiv back again (I'd sign up for my own account, but since I'm not a bander and you guys have expressed concerns about admins looking in, I won't).
Lots of posts in the interim. Going to try to hit a few highlights. (I really wish this place had a multiquote feature. Oh well)
Understood. I'm married, so I know
exactly what it means to be the recipient but not target of venting. (Hey - saw you mention a fiancee. Congrats! That's great. And be aware that I'm not kidding about the venting thing
)
I'm going to say two last thing about the whole "its a stupid decision" argument - as you pointed out a bit later, and as I said before, the decision's been made and going round and round about whether its a wise decision isn't doing anyone any good (that doesn't mean "stop venting", you're welcome to it, and if you have direct questions for me, I'll answer them as best we can. It just means I'm going to stop responding to every post about it).
First, I think a lot of you are missing the difference between "I don't understand your reasons" and "I don't agree with your reasons". It's clear that the majority of you don't, and probably never will, agree with the decision that was made. (again, I wasn't part of the decision when it was made, but I do agree with the reasons, for whatever that's worth to you). But whether or not you think the reasons are sufficient to support the decision, you should be able to at least understand them.
Second, I haven't seen any response at all, from any of you, to the point I made that this
isn't a blank slate, Band-only decision (and if someone did respond and I missed it, I'm sorry). This was a decision that impacted, in various ways, every org and div. And, like I said before, a lot of them came back after a lot of similar drama. Some (I think the WT div) split, pretty painfully, from what I understand. How do you think folks in those Orgs and Divs would take it if, after all that, DM made an exception for the Band, let the Band keep the off-boards that everyone else had to give up? Do you think they would think that was fair? Or do you think there'd be a lot of resentment.
Of course, as Banders, what other orgs and divs think doesn't need to be your worry. But it
is our job to worry about things like that. And its the reason why, even if you guys made some brilliant argument none of us had considered for why (viewed in a vacuum) keeping the Band's off-boards would be better for the site as a whole, we still
couldn't let you keep them. There are just too many secondary and tertiary factors preventing it.
Which I guess is my way of saying, for those of you still holding out hope that there's some way to maintain the status quo . . . you need to stop thinking that way. It's not going to happen. So its time to start thinking about the two options that remain - the way 12th, and Horn have done, and the way your leader (Corki) asked you to.
Just my $.02, so feel free to ignore it - but that's how I see it.
Aww, thanks
That was me, actually, not empy. confusing, I know ;D
Actually - and he can correct me if I'm wrong - I think Empy would be balancing his Org's welfare against DM's as a whole. Because he's an Admin and, like I said, that means it's his
job to think about more than just the 'Chan.
But like I said in my original post, that's
not your job, so when I said you were looking out mainly for the Band, that's not a criticism at all. It's exactly what I'd expect you guys to do, and I don't think badly of any of you for it.
Like Emp said, handling the traffic won't be an issue. Plus, if the move happens, my understanding is that the 200K+ posts here wouldn't be coming over - these boards would be locked as an archive, and posts would start fresh on the equivalent DM boards. That might not hold true for all threads - maybe active ones would be moved, I don't know at all. But even if so, a lot fewer than 200K posts would come over.
I doubt expanded sigs are in the cards. I'm pushing on double avatars, but don't know about that one either. Assume not, for now.
Exactly. You'll have to clear any taking advantage of me with my wife, though.
(Speaking of Miriam, btw - have any of you actually tried to explain the current situation to anyone not steeped in message board lore, history or drama? She just asked me what this long post is about, and why I couldn't come to bed until I finished it . . . so I told her. All she did was giggle at me for 10 minutes. I think I can still hear her laughing upstairs.
)
Now this is a great post. Not because I agree with it - personally, I've never really run into much of the cliquishness I hear about, though that may be because I don't have much of an org or RP presence myself (and I try to stomp on it when I see it rearing its head over on D&D), haven't really been involved in many squabbles, petty or otherwise (Kat and 12th know about the only one I've ever really had to deal with, actually) and think I've got pretty good relations with other members (at least I hope I do, since I'm a member myself, first and foremost; I only ever put on my staff hat when I absolutely have to). But because its actually addressing the matter at hand. I hope that's not the majority view of the Banders, and if there's anything you can suggest that we as staff can do to address those problems, I'd be happy to do whatever I can. But if it is the majority view, then the best thing for you guys to do is to vote to leave.
Yep, pretty much
(Actually, we miss you around there - or I do, at least. You should swing by more often!)
Again, whether I agree with it or not, this is a good post.
More of this - from everyone who has an opinion, from either side of the debate (with hopefully more from the "lets go back to DM" side ;D) - is what this thread needs.
The only thing, besides this type of post, that's going to be really helpful, IMO, is feature type requests.
Tell us what you have here that you would want at DM, and I'll fight to get it for you, if it's at all feasible.
More to come, but I'm posting this now because my firefox has a history of seizures and if I lose all this writing, I'll cry