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Post by kingkastschei on Mar 5, 2008 19:22:34 GMT
Another book you may wish to read, as a scientist, is "Science of the Bible". At least that's what I think it's called... Also, "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" and "More Evidence That Demands a Verdict" by Josh MacDowell have some very interesting comments about Science and the Bible. It is very interesting to note that the Bible is actually very scientifically advanced for the period in which it was written. If you look at many of the underlying principles of many of the commandments, especially in the Old Testament, you will see many modern scientific principles, ie. helio-centric solar system, sanitation, physics, chemistry, things of that sort, written about during a time when none of these things were even thought about! Unfortunately, I don't have any of these books myself, so I can't give you more definitive examples, but I would urge you to check them out.
Ultimately, though, the difficulty for a scientist in studying religion in general, is that the scientific method really cannot be applied to testing much of the tenets of Christianity. Science requires testing within a controlled environment for results that are concrete and repeatable. Studying Christianity is more like a detective gathering evidence and making conclusions based upon the preponderance of said evidence.
I applaud you that you are open-mindedly and methodically researching this, too many people never take the time to actually study what Christians believe and why we believe it. That's one of the beauties of Christianity, it holds up to this type of investigation remarkably well! Most people who approach an in-depth study find themselves overwhelmed by the evidence for truth, even those who study it for the sake of de-bunking it!
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Post by kingkastschei on Mar 5, 2008 20:23:00 GMT
Here, Northie. I found this site that has some pretty good information on the Resurrection. Link Hope this helps you in your quest!
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Post by Northie on Mar 5, 2008 21:08:46 GMT
thank you!!! i will go and see if i can find some of those books!!
and i agree about the surprising amount of evidence for the bible and the remarkably unsubstantiated arguments against it
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Post by M-G Corki on Mar 5, 2008 23:21:38 GMT
Do I think the Bible is factual? Yes, I do. Why? Because, especially with the Old Testament, there is good historical evidence around from the Assyrians of Ancient Mesopotamia. There are many names from their sources that match up with names in the Bible.
Now, you also have to remember that their knowledge of the sciences were not as strong or thorough as ours. So, as a result, modern science is going to somehow undermine what was written back then. But does that stop me believeing in what is written in the Bible? No. It is my holy scripture.
Do I believe Jesus Christ died for us on the Cross for the salvation of mankind? Yes, I do, and I also believe that there is something for me after I die. I know I do not go to church regularly (I seriously can't remember the last time I went), but through my baptism and confirmation, I believe in this. And during some of my darkest times, especially when I feel out over my parents, I tied to God and Jesus for guidance. I read passages of the Bible, and they helped and guided me.
I also feel that science will always try and prove things in the Bible wrong. While this may be the case, it will not pull me away from the Bible or the messages and teaching it aims to get across.
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Post by The Dark One on Mar 5, 2008 23:42:03 GMT
Well Northie, to preface this statement hopefully I'm not repeating everything someone else has said (because i didn't read all of the previous posts very thoroughly). but your right the Resurrection is the final testimony that Jesus was the son of God. The resurection was indeed both physical as well as physical for it is so very important to note that he overcame the bonds of death as well as our sins.
Like stef said that Thomas touched him after his resurrection (john 20:27-29) , but there are other scriptural references as well. In Luke 24:36-44 It tells of the other 11 apostles experience with the lord and the Lord himself tells them "for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." (f.y.i. all my quotes are taken from the King James version). He also eats in those verses and in John 21:13-14 which i think we can all agree is something a spirit could not do. but concerning the discovery yeah it is a very small probability that all those names are in the same place. Probably too much of a coincidence. especially since his family would probably inscribe jesus son of god instead of son of joseph If they were his remains. In others words I think we just discovered one of the first debunking attempts that some ancient jew tried to arrange that did not believe. I think one of the most important things though Northie since there is a lack of hard evidence in the matter is to ask god. In james chapter 1 verse 5 it says "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." thats quite a promise that god has given us and if he truly is our father in heaven then surely he will love us enough to try to clear up a lot of this confusion that has happened over the ages of time.
But thats just what i think and considering who this is coming from maybe it doesn't have much merit with you but I hope it helps in someway.
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Samurai P.I.
Mega Poster
Assassin (Redarm)
I used to call her Cindy, she changed ehr name to Sin
Posts: 6,656
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Post by Samurai P.I. on Mar 6, 2008 7:57:26 GMT
Wow....that is .....a bit odd...lol.
Northie, I wish you much luck in your quest. I have attended Christian churches (infrequently) most of my life. I could not tell you of a single moment where I felt compelled or guided by God. On the same note though, I cannot say that my prayers have had my whole heart behind them.
I agreee that the New Testament has very factual elements. The Old Testament is up in the air though, especially, for me, since it spans an unbelievable amount of time. My most honest answer about the bible is that I believe it is heavily fact based fiction. What I mean by this is, no matter what the fact is.....if you ask several people you will get differences (Sometimes subtle) from one story to the next. So therefore there is the possiblity that some of what is written is an interprtation, just as there are differences in the translations of the original texts.
I have learned Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran, and even Jehovah's Witness teachings to varying degrees. The only answer I have come up with for myself is that Faith is the answer.
Whether or not God, Jesus, or any of the information is true, it is faith that gives it power. I feel that faith can do some remarkable things(Healing, etc). If this is the will of God, or just self empowerment, I know not. But, I think that for people, if you try and do well by your peers, and believe that following that path will lead you to something after, then seek what you are looking for and you will probably find it.
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Post by Northie on Mar 7, 2008 10:39:47 GMT
lots of think about there.
i have to say i did ask God (who i dont fully believe in) to help me...and he showed me this dilemma.
and DO i think you are qualified in this...anyone is.
im not worrying about various factions interpretations of the Bible at the moment. i.e. catholic, protestant etc the impression i have is that if you have full faith then thats the best that you can do and that by living a good life your effectively showing Christ that you do care about what he did (if that is an incorrect interpretation id like to know! lol!)
also consider that the Bible was the book used to make the first predictions of the age of the earth. Bishop Ussher in 1658 calculated it to be created on 23rd October 4004 BC...John Lightfoot then amended it to 9am that day. and i think that this might be a realistic age of the first beginnings of the book itself, if not the earth
i think that as science advances it shows us how much the Bible can encompass...and how much current thinking it supports. and therefore in that respect the Bible is as old as the universe itself, if indeed its the word from God
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Post by stefaniasedai on Mar 7, 2008 13:56:16 GMT
Wow! 5,984 years (later to the day), God made me! ;D
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Post by Sir Uasal Arach on Mar 7, 2008 14:49:10 GMT
Nothie a few things I would add about having a "saving faith" is that it is all you need to be saved from your sins. One misconception is that people think they need to do something to "earn" the salvation they have accepted and been freely given.
1. You will NEVER be able to earn it. You can never do enough to repay the price that was paid.
2. It is a gift. It's FREE. Just accept it for what it is worth, your soul. This in my opinion is the hardest for people to understand and accept.
3. Once you accept and believe with all your heart, soul, mind, and stength that Jesus is God's son, He died for your sins(past, present, and future), that He arose on the third day, then from that day on the Bible says you are a new creature. Old things have passed away, behold all things are made new. You won't have to "try" and be a "good Christian". You will want to with all your heart. It will be your "new" nature. Now that doesn't mean that you will no longer make mistakes. You are still human but you now have the right to go to the throne of God in prayer and ask forgiveness. The bible says God is "faithful and just to forgive us our sins."
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Post by The Dark One on Mar 8, 2008 2:02:59 GMT
But keep in mind even a gift you have to recieve. When I give the gift that keeps giving, a fruitcake the person still has to outstretch their arms and accept it. Like wise we must accept christ as being who he is by following his commandments. So we do have to do a little work it's not completely free, but it's like me delivering a single newspaper and then getting paid a car for it.
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Post by 12thr on Mar 8, 2008 2:22:11 GMT
Everything has been well said here, and I think you're on the right track so far Northie... As To finding arguement against for the sake of actually doing the work... that's a little harder, Not sure I've ever seen anything like it.... However, if you ever have the chance to look up some magazines... its called Biblcial Archaelogical Review, it features both stories for and against the Bible, and if I recall, there was an issue that featured the 'Tomb of Jesus'... ummm, I may even still have it, i'll have to look.
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